Paul Hyett <pahyett@activist.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Dm2KfACjiOF$EwPu@activist.demon.co.uk...
> In uk.sport.cricket on Tue, 15 Jul 2003 at 05:39:38, Robert Henderson
> wrote :
> >>>
> >>> I would apply the same criteria to Butcher as any other player,
> >>namely,
> >>> does he think himself English and is he accepted automatically as
> >>> English by the English. RH
> >>>
> >>
> >>OK, so thats Yes, and Yes.....
> >>So he's English...
> >>
> >
> >You do not know that he thinks of himself as English - most blacks
> >describe themselves as British or Black-British or occasionally
> >Black_English.
> >
> >Nor is one individual saying I accept him as English the test. He has to
> >be generally accepted as English by the English.  RH
>
> That's somewhat specious, since without polling them you can make any
> claim you want.
>
> Perhaps we should do that now :
>
> 1. Do you think Mark Butcher considers himself English?
> 2. Do you consider Mark Butcher to be English?
>
> I'd say Yes to both.
> >
> >All stars elevens drawn from various nationalities in any sport rarely
> >if ever perform as well as might be expected judged by the talents of
> >the individual players.
>
> That's because such teams tend to be once-offs, and have no time to
> build team spirit, not because multiracial teams *can't* do so.
> --
> Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England

Obviously this depend's on one's definition of multi-racial, but there are
clear exceptions to Robert's argument.
The French and Brazilian football teams spring immediately to mind, as does
the Dutch soccer side in the late 1980's.   Using Robert's views on
Englishness, you would have to view these sides as being multi-racial, yet
they won a truck load of trophies between them.  You could also add the
Irish football side under Jack Charlton, when many of the players were
patently not Irish, but they had their most successful period ever.

Cheers

David