"Malcolm Kane" <malcolm@jgj-jewellers.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:n6BeshBlzwj$Ew7R@jgj-jewellers.demon.co.uk...
> In message <3f8f1e7d@news.greennet.net>, Jane <nospam@all.com> writes
> >
> >"Malcolm Kane" <malcolm@jgj-jewellers.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:sVws3BEiguj$Ew5K@jgj-jewellers.demon.co.uk...
> >> In message <3f8ef50c@news.greennet.net>, Jane <nospam@all.com> writes
> >> >"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:bmk3d0$380$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you care about civil liberties and support the freedom to hunt?
> >> >
> >> >We all care about civil liberties, but your so-called freedom to hunt
> >> >isn't one of them. Animal rights groups have worked very hard to
> >> >ban it, and the public are behind them,
> >>
> >> Perhaps in the area where you are.  Where is that by the way?
> >>
> >> Get up here into "John Peel Country" and the public are most certainly
> >> not behind them.
>
> I note you make no comment about a whole county where the majority
> support hunting.

I don't care that they do support it.
72% of the public think fox hunting should not be legal
80% think so of deer hunting
81% of hare coursing.
The majority of the UK's population don't support hunting, and the interests
of the comparative few who find pleasure in seeing an animal ripped apart
by dogs are totally irrelevant.
> >>
> >> >and those who continue to
> >> >hunt after the ban will be breaking the law. Your senseless cruelty
> >> >is going to make you a criminal. Have you thought about that?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> The law does not stop the killing of foxes merely the hunting with dogs.
> >
> >It's a good start. The public are at last starting to realise that cruelty
> >to animals can be stopped.
>
> You miss my point.  See below.
>
> >
> >> They will be more likely after hunting stops to be snared, lamped,
> >> poisoned etc.  I suspect the cruelty will be much greater.  There is
> >> nobody in the middle of a dark field at night to control cruelty at
> >> least hunting is in daylight and easily observed.
> >
> >That's absurd. Using that line of thinking, we should allow daylight
> >robbery because a burglar works during the night.
>
> I did not say that hunting should be allowed.  Please do not put words
> in my mouth.

I didn't. You propose that observable cruelty should be allowed during
the day because unobserved cruelty happens during the night where there
is no one standing in the middle of a dark field to control it, and that is akin
to letting purse snatchers go because burglars will rob you during the night
anyway.

What I was saying is that if your purpose is to
> reduce/stop suffering of foxes.

The discussion here is on the banning of hunts which use dogs.

 It could be the case that the small
> number killed by hunts where there are followers both for and against
> the hunt may well mean less suffering than if people decide to take the
> fox control into their own hands and start lamping, shooting with
> unsuitable guns, snaring poisoning etc.
>
 If it becomes apparent that animals are suffering from this cruelty as
well, then hopefully a ban on lamping, shooting with unsuitable guns and
snaring will follow shortly after the ban on using hounds.

> Unless you can arrange some sort of foot patrol over every inch of rural
> Britain (and it doesn't seem possible over urban Britain let alone
> rural) there will be nobody who knows about the suffering caused by the
> methods of fox control.
>
> If you genuinely want to reduce the killing and suffering of foxes this
> is a problem you must address.   Many landowners at the moment do not
> control foxes leaving it to the hunt.  After hunting is banned they will
> turn to what ever is their favoured method.   Shotgun, snare, poison
> etc.
>
> Nobody will see or know what they are doing when.
>
So what is your point, if it isn't to allow hunting with dogs to continue?
Cruel people will always find ways to continue being cruel, but that
doesn't mean we should allow them to continue just because we can
monitor their cruelty during the day.
>
> -- 
> Malcolm Kane